A lot of you are familiar with http://www.pwarchive.com/. For a long time, it's been a resource for chord charts and tabs for worship music. While coasting around Facebook the other day, I see a "pwarchive" group so I check it out.
Imagine my surprise to find numerous angry comments on their wall. Why? Because of this recent notice posted at the worship site:
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Notice
Pwarchive has been contacted by the Church Music Publishers Association and have been asked to remove all lyrics from the site due to copyrights. Over the next few days, work is going to be done to comply with this. Please join the mailing list for all future updates. Want to help?
Additional details on this matter can be found on the copyright page which will contain future updates. Sign the petition to as CMPA members to grant licenses to Pwarchive.
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First things first - what are your thoughts on this development?
Secondly, if you'd like to protest this decision, I strongly urge you to click the 'petition' link above and let your voice be heard. I'm not sure how many names are needed, but as the time of this writing, it was somewhere around 1200 names.
Friday, March 07, 2008
CAN OF WORMS?
Posted by Todd Wright at 1:41 PM
Labels: church, church culture, copyright law, pwarchive, worship
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28 comments:
Well, you can't protest the site owners' decision. They don't want to get sued by "worship artists" (whatever that is). You can protest people who ostensibly are writing songs for the Church to use in worship services looking to make pop-music-style bucks off of licensing those, um, "resources"...
Yeah, and this is especially a bad deal because of "worship" publishing.
According to my research, almost every song published by a worship music company is a 100% transfer. Artists still make royalties, but do to the nature of worship music (remakes, medleys, etc,) decisions on use of the song are soley the publishers'. In short, worship writers give all of it away, which shows its ugly head in situations just like this one with pwarchive.
If any of you have knowledge of the inner-workings of federal copyright law, please help us understand this.
"You can protest people who ostensibly are writing songs for the Church to use in worship services looking to make pop-music-style bucks off of licensing those, um, "resources"..."
So were you ticked that Todd put a copyright on his recent music? What you are implying is that it would be hunky dorey to you if Madonna grabbed one of his songs, re-mixed the heck out of it, and made it into a huge hit, but didn't give Toddy any recognition or money? I certainly don't think Todd is doing it for the money, but musicians, painters, writers, you name it have to protect themselves somehow, right?
No, what Johnny is saying, quite politely actually, is that lots of the biggest-named, sweetest-smiling, trendiest-selling worship music 'stars' turn into jerks when the idea of somebody using one of their worship "hits" without paying for it.
And he's right - it's strange, but some of the worst people in the world regarding copyrights and royalites are people who wrote those songs for the edification of the body and the glory of God.
I happen to know that Johnny understands and appreciates copyrights and the rule of music business. (Since he is said business as his profession) I also happen to agree with Johnny that while copyrights and royalites are good, Christian musicians who are writing songs for worship should be the first to say "I don't care if you pay me or not. Use the song to worship God. He'll pay me whenever He sees fit."
Yes. Artists releasing their music as a commercial release are entitled (assuming they have not sold publishing rights) to control and profit from the publishing of their work.
The confusion sets in when what is being released are sold as "resources" for the Church catholic to use in its worship. If the material is in fact an offering to the Church, the "worship artist" (whatever that is) needs to be willing to release a certain amount of control he would normally retain if the music were an entertainment offering.
Meaning, Todd, me, Ross, you, whoever...should be willing to allow a certain degree of publishing provided it's not for profit. If Churches want to publish our lyrics and worship leaders want to share them via the web, that's the nature of writing for the Church.
If one wants to earn money from every possible revenue stream in the way an entertainer does, then one is in the wrong line of work. IMO, that is.
This is an example of not reaping the edges of your field.
But posting the lyrics and chords doesn't hurt the "revenue" does it? I mean, CCLI is where these artists are going to make money - aside from concerts and record sales. Where is the resource for churchs to utilize this music?
I forgot...Rockin' With the Cross.
So Todd, You and Johnny are basically telling me that you don't care if you make anything off of your latest CD or not. It kinda defeats the point of doing it in the first place does it not?
Let me as you something Todd, if I were to make a copy of the CD that you just turned out and gave it to every member of our local youth group "within our church," you would be "OK" with that?
Romack, they charge a small fee now but it is still a good site.
An excerpt from the linear notes of Todd's CD "All the Freed" (that you really should listen to):
"All songs protected by Federal Copyright law, but it's okay if you wanna' copy a couple for your friends."
Is that sufficient for Todd's view on you copying and distributing to the youth group?
Couple = 2
Youth group typically > 2
I guess he should have specified a specific number of copies, like Apple and iTunes, so technicalities wouldn't arise such as this.
Romack, it is not really a question of specifics is it?
The question for me would be:
If it is ok to burn a couple for your friends, Why even make mention of all songs being protected by Federal copyright law?
It tells me that "Yes! Make a couple for your friends, but if you make any more or share them on some internet music pirating site, I will sue you until your children can't eat." That last part about the children was just for dramatization. :)
If Churches want to publish our lyrics and worship leaders want to share them via the web, that's the nature of writing for the Church.
Simple solution. Don't copyright your lyrics. Otherwise, you force someone to draw the line between 'doing it for the church' and 'doing it to make a buck.' I definitely understand and respect the Church Music Publisher's group deciding they don't want to be forced to make that decision.
Let me just add my little piece here.
I know there's no way for me to verify this in any way, so you'll have to trust me.
I have no problem if you burned 1,000 CDs for your entire church. As a matter of fact, I made a CD specifically to put songs in the hands of churches. If they use CCLI and they look, they'll see Todd Wright and they can report that use if they want to. If they don't, I don't care one bit. That's just me.
I think Romack's on the right track here. In a real-world situation, what "monies" are being stolen from me by somebody putting my chords and lyrics online when the only way I'm going to see income any way is if they happen to be registered w/ a CCLI license and choose to report my songs?
How do I lose money on pwarchive? I get there's a rights issue - that the PW people need to ask Todd if its okay if they use his songs. I just feel for all those represented by the CPMA (which may even be me - they might be part of CCLI or something) who are cool with their songs being shared but their "reps" have shut it down.
Lumbearstang and OldFart, I love having both you guys around, but I swear, your sarcasm ends up killing so many of your points that are actually good and worth discussing. You wonder why people get riled up when you're on blogs? They can't see past the smirk, guys. Maybe you dig that - but it makes me sad because you're both contributing really good things.
It makes you sad? Awww.
Perhaps there is a song in that.
Sarcastic blog commenters, rainy days, and Mondays always get me down.
For the record, nothing I have written today up until this post has been sarcastic.
Todd, I read back through my comments and I have a hard time seeing anything sarcastic.
The "Dramatization" was a poke at humor. I am sorry if you misunderstood it.
Use the song to worship God. He'll pay me whenever He sees fit."
If this is your stance on the whole issue, I applaud you.
I would actually like to know why myself and Lumbearstang are viewed by you and your blogging friends as "Artists of Sarcasm" so to speak. We ask a few questions on a blog or two and we are attacked. By Christians no less. Why be so defensive?
Many would do well to know the heart of Lumbearstang as I do.
It is hard to read the posts on some of these blogs and not ask questions. Then to be attacked by all of your friends?
You ever feel like you are not wanted when you enter a place? You ever have someone look at you with the , "what is he doing here?"
face? That is how it feels when I comment sometimes on these blogs. I know none of you can smell me, so that option is covered. Is the problem with the questioning? Should myself and Lumbearstang "Abstain" from visiting your blog and the blogs of your friends?
Well, I could be wrong. Maybe sarcasm isn't the right word. It's entirely possible that I'm just not able to find the right word. I just think that you guys couch some pretty good thoughts in ways that turn people off.
I'll be honest to say that over the past month or so on this blog and over at Robert's, my first thought about you guys hasn't been, "That's a good point," but rather, "That guy's a jerk." That's unfortunate, because you're not jerks. I just think there's some sort of breakdown here - that maybe we're unable to decipher what sort of tone you're bringing to the party.
I don't know that I'm supposed to ask you guys to abstain. I mean, dang, probably 12 of these comments have been actual dialogue, so it's not like anybody's shutting you down. I've gotten emails suggesting that I ask you guys not to come over here...I don't think that's the right thing to do. I just think it's important for me to keep an eye on things and hopefully make them better.
I'll also admit that I'm a little bit worried about writing even this.
I want you to imagine two scenarios:
#1. Clay Walker is standing in front of the youth group - kids he loves and believes in. He's being nice, but he's being honest, too. He's telling the kids some stuff that's important to Him and that He thinks is important to God. And one of the kids that Clay's trying to support says "IT MAKES YOU SAD? AWWW."
#2. You're talking with your child after church and you hand over your car keys. She's old enough to drive, you trust her, you're the Dad. You tell her that she can have the car and that you trust her. Suddenly, somebody in the foyer stops you and says "WHAT IF YOUR DAUGHTER DECIDES SHE CAN DRIVE ANYWHERE SHE WANTS? WHAT IF SHE DRIVES TO A CLUB? WOULD YOU BE 'OK' WITH THAT?"
It happened at Rob's blog and it's happening here. You're responding with such spite. When folks try to mention that maybe you're being a little too mean with your comments, you guys just amp it up.
I don't recall many comments wherein either one of you guys have said, "You know what? That was too far." Instead you come back with stuff like WHY-ARE-WE-NOT-WELCOME-HERE comments.
If the immediate-response of blogging has taught me anything, it's that I have to get used to saying I'm wrong. I do it a lot. And not just on this blog.
The way I see it, you guys have a choice. I think you can both man up and admit that some of your attempts at humor may have landed wrong and keep talking about the issues OR you can fire back two or three more comments about how intolerant my friends are. That's your choice.
Maybe it's not sarcasm...maybe it's a different perspective. I just think you're hacking people off and I don't see you seeming to care. And I don't think that's ever cool.
You don't have to not copyright your lyrics. You as the artist writing and releasing songs for worship should be lenient in your granting of permission to use them. It's a different animal than putting out a record as an artist.
My CD income is not affected by putting my lyrics and chords on a web page. Unless I released a worship CD with forcing Churches or worship leaders to have to buy it to use the songs in mind. In which case I'm a "money whore," to use Pastor McClendon's phrase.
But when I write worship music, it isn't copyrighted anyway. Or, it technically is, but I reserve no rights to it.
My prog band? Totally different ball game.
Todd, I don't see any problem with what's been written here.
I've gotten emails suggesting that I ask you guys not to come over here...I don't think that's the right thing to do. I just think it's important for me to keep an eye on things and hopefully make them better.
LOL. This is just too funny. Don't come 'round here no mo. I don't speak for OldFart when I say this, but whoever asked YOU to ask me to abstain needs to GROW A SET!
You know what? That was too far.
I'll also admit that I'm a little bit worried about writing even this.
Why?
It happened at Rob's blog and it's happening here. You're responding with such spite. When folks try to mention that maybe you're being a little too mean with your comments, you guys just amp it up.
"MAYBE" I was spiteful and mean with my comments? Maybe I was a little too mean? Maybe?
I was intrigued by your scenarios so I came up with a couple for you.
My Scenarios:
Todd, if you did not know me at all and you met me on the street, would you think I was "Unsaved"? And then try and present the Gospel to me?
Or, would you try and develop a relationship with me and gain my trust and friendship in order to present the Gospel?
Or would you just ass/u/me by my comments that I did not know Christ and present me an opportunity to hear the Gospel?
Disclaimer...
If anyone was offended in any manner by the above comments, please rest assured that I am saved and I love Jesus with all my heart. You most likely did not like what I said. Most likely? Maybe you did not like what I said. There now.
Is that man enough?
I understand where some of you are coming from in asking "why copyright your stuff, then?" That's a fair question, and I'll tell you why I do it.
1. If somebody WANTS to pay me, I let them. (I'm not a dummy!)
2. It's actually kinda' hard to make an album w/o copyrighting it. When you bring it to the duplicator, try to sell it online or put it in stores, you're asked to verify - in print - that the songs are yours and you have rights to do with them as you please. That "written" verification is copyright.
3. As I mentioned earlier, my whole goal with this record, and I think my music in general, is to get it used in churches for worship. Believe it or not, copyright info is often a way to spread those songs. It hasn't happened a lot, but I have had a few occassions where someone in a congregation has liked a song, seen the copyright info and then looked me up. My songs are played in a lot of churches, so I'm not sure, but I think it might be worthwhile "media."
That's my take.
1. If somebody WANTS to pay me, I let them. (I'm not a dummy!)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, and I appreciate the honesty. Make every penny you can, because with two little ones, college is going to cost both of us > 100K.
https://www.texascollegesavings.com/
My songs are played in a lot of churches...
Brag much?
That comment would have been way more humble if I hadn't skipped the "n't."
My songs AREN'T played in many churches.
The reason to copyright the songs is to prevent people from using them for personal profit (just because Todd has the right attitude about his songs doesn't mean every worship leader does) and to be able to keep them from being abused ("The Episcopal Lesbian Choir sings 'All the Freed'").
Also, one's songs are already copyrighted. The paperwork is the documentation of that fact.
Episcopal Lesbian Choir...that made my day, Johnny.
But don't sell me short here, buddy. I need a new SUV! Ca-ching!
A new blog topic:
The Episcopal Lesbian Choir
Hmm, so it's OK to kick that group. All here that fight over the crass or inflamitory comments of some can agree to cast stones at the Episcopal church. I guess I better not ever do "All the Freed" since I can assure you that I am not without sin... Easy to kick the gays.. no need to build a bridge, no need to love them.
Do we take a literal interpretation of the bible on everything? Do we consider who wrote what and when and what the culture was when it was written? There is a school of thought out there that takes this one...
Consider that you live in a society that women are property. Not even highly regarded property. Especially wives...
Exodus 20:9-10 (King James Version)
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Nothing about the wife...clean up the kitchen please.
Continuing on in the thought process. Women are not highly regarded.. Adultry is a sin, because you disrespect the man that she belongs to. Men can have multiple wives, concubines, harems etc. so obviously having sex outside the marrage is not an issue for the man. Just don't have sex with another man's woman. You disrespet the man. Oh if she's a single virgin give dad $50..
Again, women are not highly regarded, but let't take the next step in logic and in this ancient society. Perhaps if you take the position in the sex act that the woman takes you are lowering yourself to the woman's role and you are then committing a sin. (Although I don't recall seeing anything about lesbiens per se.. hence what's the problem with the lesbien choir lol).
The sin may not have been the sex act between the two but the fact that one was taking on the role of the female in it.
I've had some Christians tell me that they just don't see how this is natural and even though gays and lesbiens argue they are made that way how could God make some one that way? That doesn't make sence.
And how do we have people born with both sex organs? What do we do with that? How could God make someone that way? I guess we could stone them to death. Oh yeah, no crippled preachers please and be sure and stay away from shellfish. Look guys, all I'm getting to here is..
Love your God and Love one another.. not just you on this blog but those that are different too.
Now as for the music thing? I've run out of time for the most part. I do understand a lot of the discussion but I also remember people like mercy me putting words and chords on their websites. They had copyrights on them but they were not published... once published the "publisher" who invests the time, effort and assets in to getting the stuff out there so all can use it (including those that need dots and lines and such to play it)they want to get paid for their time and investment.
I don't have a problem with people getting paid. I get paid to do what I do. I do it along with all other things in my life with the best of my ability to glorify God. If I ever do one of Todd's tunes in church and I'm in a CCLI reporting period and I have to make a paper or electronic copy of his work to do so I'll report it and hopefully he'll get his nickle out of it.
OK, got to go to work.
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